Have you done an art course you thought was really worth-while?
My last post, Why You Don’t Need Another Art Course, ruffled a feather or two.
I make no secret of the fact that I’m self-taught. In fact I’m proud of it.
But perhaps I should have realised that some people might be a bit put out by my suggestion that there might be a better way to learn – particularly people who offer courses themselves!
I wasn’t trying to create controversy. My goal with that post was to encourage you – if you’ve returned to art, want to learn but don’t know where to start – to take the first step in learning on your own. I want to encourage you to take control of your own learning.
I want to do that because I believe that the best way to achieve lasting, sustainable change in our lives is by taking small steps. And because I believe that if a significant proportion of those steps are self directed, it gives us the confidence to take the next, and then the next.
I stand by what I wrote.
That said, I didn’t mean to imply that all courses are a waste of time. Just most of them!
Some interesting discussion did come out of that post, though. Liz Forshaw was particularly eloquent regarding the benefits of studying at The Academy of Realist Art.
I received a few interesting emails from people that run courses too. So now I think it’s time to give the other view a little more breathing space.
Three Good Reasons to Take an Art Course
1: It can help you take that first step
Taking the first step can be unbelievably hard. Fear of making the wrong move and self-doubt can hold you back. It’s even more difficult to do on your own.
What Liz and others pointed out was that having a structure to work to can actually help you do it. Having a clear progression to follow can beat procrastination and fear and allow us to move forward.
There’s something in that.
2: A problem shared…
Another great benefit of a course is the interaction with a community of other people learning the same stuff as you. This certainly isn’t to be taken lightly. As Jerome pointed out in the comments on the last post, learning to draw and paint can be a very lonely undertaking.
It’s difficult to motivate yourself in a vacuum.
3: Teacher feedback
Teachers, if they’re good, may be able to identify areas for improvement that we miss ourselves.
I’ve had an experience like that myself. A while ago I did a portrait painting evening course. It wasn’t perfect and there were some elements of it I found pretty frustrating.
But when the teacher came to look at my work and give some tips, they were all about design and composition.
It threw me.
For some time I’d been obsessed with learning to draw and paint realistically, which meant good values, sound drawing, accurate colour. I could do all those things reasonably well.
But my composition skills were well behind my technical skills.
For all my practice, I couldn’t see the greatest weakness in my work – at least I didn’t attach much importance to it – but the teacher identified it quickly.
Two Questions For You
I’d like to ask you your opinion of a course you’ve done. I want to hear your positive experiences.
Please answer these two questions for me:
- What course have you done? (If you’ve done a bunch, just pick the most important, memorable or useful one)
- What did you get from it that you couldn’t get practising on your own?
Please use the comments to let me know.
Don’t hold back. Be honest. Don’t worry about spelling or grammar. Everyone’s opinion is valid here and that means yours is too. We want to hear from you.
I want to hear from you.
Thanks, as always,
Paul
Posted: November 25th 2012
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I am a self taught artist and at the same time I teach, my experience is that if I had had some one like me as a teacher or better than me, I wouldn’t have waste so much time doing bad paintings. At the same time, what you learn on your own, represents a lot of will and love for the craft ,and
that is also very powerful,another good thing about being a self taught artist is that your stile is very different from other people. I see a lot of work that some time is difficult to know who is the artist. of course they had the same teacher and they learn to do the work the same way. My advice is Yes take a course if you can, try different good teachers and do a lot of your own work in between.
Feathers need to be ruffled from time to time :^)
The thing that I had to face myself was that taking another course wasn’t going to do me any good until I was ready to face my art demons. I threw myself into forensic art, but never let myself enjoy my own art, having nothing to do with my work. I’d take a painting class….then not paint when I got home. Maybe I expected an epiphany from those class, but it never happened. It finally did, and it had nothing to do with any class. I’ve recently started working on art having nothing to do with work, and I don’t want to take a class now because I want to work on what I know in my gut I need to work on.
I can tell you a problem I see in the forensic art world, and maybe this is true in some fine art classes: workshop instructors that are not entirely truthful with their students because they want to keep the money coming in with more classes. They are afraid of brutal honesty. I’ve seen people desperate to be forensic artists taking class after class, and they never get better, and I know the instructors (it’s a small field) are not being honest with them.
No class with help you unless you are getting constructive honest feedback, and you are willing to put in the hundreds of hours on your own time after the 40 hours spent in a workshop.
I think it all has to with taking controll of you own learning. If your skills need improvement an art class or course of any kind might very well help you to change your perspective on that specific area of art. Or it might offer you training in skills that you lack or need to develop. However it will never give you the statisfaction or desired result if you don’t own your own learning process (owning it might be a complete adventure of it’s own though!)
I meself visit a painter weekly, in order to develop my technical skills in painting and paint handling. This painter is also a self thaught artist with over 40 years of experiance (through trail and error and study of renaiccanse masters). His experiance definatly helps me to develop my painting because what he teaches supplies in my needs. I take home the lessons learned and try to work through it again in my own time. I need to apply them otherwise they accuired skills will be of no use at all. For now this works great for me but I know that at some point I have learned everything from this artist I possibly can and I will have to go my own way again.
If I want to be an artist I will have to develop my own style and keep learning every time I work on art.
As said, I do think art classes work but only if they supply in the learning need you have. Otherwise it will be a shot in the dark without knowing where you’re aiming for.
Hi, I’m beginner, once I took course in Crakow, Poland. It was terrible! Expensive one, many attenders (mostly to paint still nature, which was there). Some students of painting very rare ask if I need some help. But I met woman, who said, that she attended good courses at the Academy of Arts. For me courses I attended were waste of time and money
same here.. for me the course I took was a waste of time and money.And I’m not happy…. so I wanted to transfer and shift to another school and course before its too late…. but my family wouldn’t let me…. what should I do? ….
I took a class in environment sketching. I draw a lot from life – and I love drawing architecture – but one day it finally dawned on me that I couldn’t do it from my imagination. I was appalled at how mediocre the drawings I made from imagination were compared to drawings made from life. I really didn’t know where to start.
The class was taught by a Disney artist who is one of the most motivating teachers I’ve had. I learned a lot about everything -design, perspective, values – I wouldn’t have been able to start out on my own. I’ve done 4 terms now and feel much better placed to take control of my own learning – now that I’m aware of what I don’t know.
We all learn in many ways. Even if we take courses, however, we determine what we learn. Some topics and skills pique our interest, some strike us as areas we need to work on, and so we pour time and effort into these, while other topics and skills we merely notice and do nothing about. A course is a smorgasbord we choose from.
Same is true of books, dvds, and masterworks, even studying from nature.
A learning experience of any kind, including courses, is valuable for us if it makes us aware of something we hadn’t noticed before, helps us develop a skill we would have had a harder time developing on our own, or helps us direct our learning efforts more constructively.
Motivation is one area, however, where instruction by another human being and the presence of fellow learners gives courses a powerful advantage over independent learning. This advantage is especially important in the early stages of learning, but it can become a dependency if we need to continue to take courses in order to maintain our motivation to paint. Imagine a writer who needed to be enrolled in a writing course in order to write. We need eventually to develop our own voice and our own way of working, which means weaning ourselves from courses.
It all depends on how your teachers are. As for me I was very lucky. If you you go to my gallery at the very end you will see.
Hi Paul, thank you for your kind words. What did I get from a course that I couldn’t get on my own?
A good instructor is going to add to your skills and push you out of your comfort zone. He’ll understand what you need. It will feel like work and you will learn something of use to you. Even if you are good technically, there is so much more to learn, as you mentioned, with your experience about composition.
Composition is a tricky subject. New eye-mapping technology is disproving the long-established importance of compositional rules. James Gurney, the Dinotopia illustrator, recently came to ARA and talked about this new research, using slides to show how the eye moved over a composition. Not as we all previously thought.
Interestingly, he said getting the story across in a believable way takes care of the composition. Do not worry about abstraction, design and golden means, he said. Rules are of use only in correcting. He also said that a painting is not a narrative. It is a single moment of time, with clues about what has happened before. Projecting the subject out in the world is the most important aspect of composition.
This has opened my eyes! It may save people a lot of time with more complicated compositions, so I’m mentioning it here.
Isabella, you made a really good point about linking structure with practicing drawing from the imagination. Both our schools encourage the development of both skills. The technical approach is not enough. “We’re in the gym” (Fernando’s words).
Check out James Gurney’s blog, Gurney’s Journey, for more information on how you can practice from the imagination.
You benefit so much from joining a community, wherever that is. A community of like-minded people will keep you focused on producing. It’s hard to operate in a vacuum. I eventually found that having a purpose –showing homework and projects — made a convenient excuse to avoid lots of things and people that wasted my time:))).
I’m an autodidact on many subjects, but a good teacher will *interact* with you and correct you by *showing how its done*. Not by showing how to do something, but by showing how to improve *your thing*.. And that’s why a book, video, blog cannot replace a teacher: a teacher interacts with your performance and improves it by helping you with your specific flaws and challenges.
Not to say books, videos, blogs are irrelevant; they’re just no replacement for a *good* teacher. So only go to courses with the best teachers you can find – the rest is just a waste of time.
Just my 2 cts..:-)
From the many and varied courses that I have attended over the last 30 years, some useful but most very disappointing, I think that the main benefits for me have been: –
I have confirmed that I know and understand all of the technical aspects of drawing & painting that I need to. Without the courses I think that, despite having learnt more from books and the Internet, I’d always have a doubt that there was some key thing that I still needed to know (that would be ‘the answer’!).
I now know that even on courses it’s largely a case of teach yourself. Most improvement comes from practice and one thing that courses do usually provide is a structure that makes me actually work.
I now think that, beyond what are actually quite few basic skills, the main things that are important to success are having the motivation to work for hundreds of hours at developing these skills; the discipline to concentrate and avoid distractions; the curiosity to take an interest in, and learn from, other artist’s work and the wider world generally, and; the ability to develop ideas so as to provide a context for work that moves it beyond being purely technical exercises.
Despite all of my reading (I really think that I’ve read all there is that is relevant to technical skills development, motivation and project development now), I still find that I’m stuck at a level beyond which I find it hard to move (and have been for many years).
What’s the answer once formal courses and self-study have been tried? Perhaps none. I suppose we all just reach our own ability limit. After all, none of the great painters in history would have had access to anywhere near the subject knowledge that any of us do so what’s actually necessary must be fairly basic.
To conclude I think that motivation is the key and that is surely influenced by context. A more social context, such as may be provided by a course, could be more motivating than working alone. The course will, of course, finish eventually though. Then what? I read that even Lucien Freud considered it to be essential to have a constant stream of sitters booked in for him to be able to keep working all day. Their presence forced him to work.
I have taken a lot of instruction over the last five years….and I confess….when I saw your article about how one could learn “alone” I was elated. What a great concept, I thought, and how brave of you to state this, “uncategorically”. I believe you are right in your assumption that everyone is very capable of getting answers without classes, and further, that it might indeed be very preferable to “go it alone”. I have felt that I can’t possibly get anywhere without people to help me get there, but in retrospect I am starting to believe that I’ve just been insecure. It’s my nature to be insecure, in many areas aside from art. Where I live the A-list painters are falling all over themselves to get people to sign up for classes and workshops. Ten years ago many of them did not offer instruction. Now, of course, they realize they must supplement their income or they’ll starve. I agree with the other commenter who stated that some art teachers won’t give you the full story. They want you to get confused and come back for more help. Unbelieveably, there was one instructor who told all of her students that they shouldn’t give the focal point any consideration! What?? Focal points or centers of interest are art 101 and yet this woman insisted they are “bad ideas”! Now when I think back on her I realize that most of her students were rank beginners and she was hoping to screw them up so they would return for more of her wisdom (she is indeed an accomplished artist, but a rotten and devious money hungry instructor. I am glad I found your article about soldiering on ahead withOUT instruction. I am going to go that route and call a moratorium on classes and workshops and try to hang out with good artists who will simply talk with me.
One of the auxiliary questions to ask is: What does “self-taught” mean? Does that mean that you haven’t read any instructional material, or just that you haven’t had a live person standing by you teaching you.
I think one can learn a lot without having a live coach standing by. But I can’t imagine just experimenting to find the best way to paint. by studying books, DVDs, art magazines, etc. one can avoid a lot of time and money wasting mistakes and learn a lot.
However, I would have to agree that at times having someone look at your work and actually talk about it with you will help you move over some sticky bumps that might hold you back for much longer without that criticism.
I have done a number of workshops over the years – mostly botanical drawing/painting. No such thing as a perfect course or workshop[, but I go with an open mind and I am always happy if I come away with 2 pieces of information that I didn’t have before. A good tutor who can point out elements that could be improved (with some idea of how to go about doing so) is essential. I’ve been fortunate in finding people who are willing to share their knowledge . It can be difficult to learn everything from books and internet and sometimes you need to see someone actually painting – if using watercolour, how wet should the paper be? what consistency should your paint be? how much pigment should the wash contain ?you can only get that from watching someone else. I also work with graphite and coloured pencil and again, you need to see someone using the pencils. The most important thing I have learned is to take it very slowly and build up in light layers. Courses also let you see your work in comparison with others. I may not be the best, but I have never been the worst either and sometimes it’s useful to realise you’re better than you thought you were despite the weaknesses. I have also found out about exhibitions and competitions through art workshops that have enabled me to go and look at other artists work for real rather than just in books and greetings cards.
The best time I ever spent was studying life drawing for four years with Rob Anderson in the SF Bay Area. It wasn’t a quick fix, but it was faster than trying to figure it all out on my own. I don’t paint or draw like Rob, but every time I pick up a brush, I hear his voice giving me pointers, correcting me, cautioning me.
I’ve taken numerous classes and workshops. On average, I’ve been fortunate to find great teachers. I think you have to pick your teacher wisely-see if you can go to a couple classes before committing to a full term, just to see if they can offer you anything, if you like their teaching style, and if you like their painting style, because they’re going to teach you their style. It’s what they know.
But in or out of a class, you have to do the work. One of my teachers said to me, to make any progress you have to paint for at least three hours a day. That’s very difficult to do with a day job, and I don’t always get that much brush or drawing time in, but I do what I can. And the more I do, the better I get.
These days, with the exception of a Saturday plein air class, I paint on my own. But I feel like my past teachers are all standing at my shoulder, helping me out. I’ve still got a lot to explore solo, but I know that at some point, I’ll need more guidance, and will go searching for the appropriate teacher.
I recently took a Portrait Painting Course at the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts. The teacher is a well known artist and is the chair of the painting department there. It was a great experience.
It was my first art class in a long time. It showed me that progression was possible. It showed me that I missed creating art. Most of all it energized me to pursue my dreams as an artist. That being said I left the class knowing I was in need of training. But how and in what way. I had already earned a bachelors in Fine Arts. I thought of joining an atelier. Then I found the Learning to See site. I have been taking control of my own learning ever since. I couldn’t be happier, I see myself progressing and I am working towards my long term goal of becoming a professional artist.
I will post some of my progress to the Facebook Page as soon as I get a chance.
Wow!
I just want to say thanks for all the wonderful comments everyone has left on this topic.
It’s obviously something that many of us feel strongly about. Thanks also for being so in depth and honest with your thoughts.
Obviously we have had a really mixed experience of the courses we’ve take, from the abysmal to the inspiring.
I find it almost criminal – no, actually, it is criminal – that a teacher would deliberately keep knowledge from a student in order to line their pockets. Such people should be barred from teaching.
But there are some really positive points here too.
The main thing I take away from this is that motivation is one of the most important positive aspects of doing a course. That can be supplied both by the teacher and by the other students.
The next most positive aspect of courses I think comes out as the identification of areas needing attention buy a teacher.
Thanks again everyone for joining the discussion with such gusto! You’ve all really given me – and I hope each other – a lot to think about.
Sean, I just want to say that you’ve completely made my day with that comment. I’m deeply honoured to have contributed to your progress. Thank you.
Hi Paul,
i’ve just finished the third session on drawing by Sarah Parks, drawing secrets revealed. It’s a online drawing program at artistnetworkuniversity.com. Everyone can follow my progress on my blog (sorry but it’s in french 🙂 )
I would like to get back on my motivation about these courses :
I was lost. I don’t know which road i can,or i must follow. I know them but i can’t choose one because i ‘ve got a lot to learn. So i decide to go back to the basic. I think it’s always a good idea to go back to the 101 lessons. In fact i need someone who can help me to give me confidence and a road to follow. I’ve found them in these courses. Sarah give you a detail information about your work. It’s not a copy/paste of information about your work. She has analysed what you ‘ve done. And she gives you the lust for improving.
For me it’s a very good experience. And i will do another workshop in the future.
Yes everythings she gives me, i know or i’ve heard about it, but she shows me the doors. Now i can choose the doors i want to open and i know which road of learning i want to follow. I know the skills i must to improve, and i know i can improve even if think i can’t or i’ve not. I’ve been surprised by this fact in my last post.
Self teaching is very difficult and sometimes you need a map or someone who can show you a road. You are free to go there or not but you know there is a road. In my opinion it’s a very important thing to know.
To be self-taught, there are a lot of virtues : disciplined,well-organised, motivated, patient, and most of all pugnacious : the capacity to fight against everything that tell you ” you can’t”. Sometimes life is not very kind and you must fight. Workshop or course can help you to overcome these moments.
But there is an attitude to adopt, i think, to have the best experience of a online course, or more generaly of a course : the techniques must be used outside of the exercises or the courses. Techniques must be yours, be integrated in your personal project. So it takes time…
In our speedy gonzales world, it’s very difficult to slow and to take time for drawing. (yes you can by switching of TV…)
Sorry if i’m very wordy.
jerome
http://pratique-talent.blogspot.fr
you can let comments in english, you’re welcome.
Can’t resist adding my tuppence worth to this one.
I haven’t done too many courses and the most useful one was probably a life drawing one. Useful because the teacher taught how to measure to improve accuracy which I hadn’t come across before. I did it for a few years (it was a part-time evening class). It’s good to have that interaction/relationship with a teacher who you hope will support/encourage/direct/correct your work. But in reality teachers are only human and have only a limited amount of interest in what you are doing. (Well it was only an evening course not an exciting full-time atelier course, so I guess you need to have realistic expectations.)
What I got from it was a sense of cameraderie and community and being part of a group. The solitary nature of painting/drawing is its major down side, I’m sure most artistic folks acknowledge that. Plus the benefit of another eye (the teacher) correcting your work or teaching you some method or way to improve your own work. Having said that, when I think back I know I discreetly ignored what she advised when I disagreed with it(!) That’s probably the crux of it for me, wanting to express my own unique perception of the world but needing a teacher to show me how to do it. I suppose at the end of the day however, how much I progress is down to largely how much effort I put into it really.
Hi Paul,
Always exiting reading on you site.
I think it all depends on how you value knowledge. I once read that an autodidact is a pupil whose teacher is ignorant. I guess we mean by being autodidact that we haven’t enrolled in an official art teaching institution. But with the amount of information available through books, Internet or immediately around us we can never be really autodidact. Vinci, Raphael and Michelangelo are teaching us a great deal by their work and the way it survives centuries. We see a lot of people around us passing their experience, but very few passing knowledge that has been enriched by generations of artists contributing to one another. I know one school in Montreal the “Atelier de Bresoles” where teacher have been studying in New York Academy of Art where many teachers have collected knowledge from masters of the European 19th century and beyond. I learned there that it was possible to learn to see in a systematic approach that years of self-though drawing would not get me. It’s like literature or music; it requires a great deal of knowledge to master the expression of what you want. So the question is: what is the base and the quality of knowledge an art teacher can provide?
Paul, I have a lot of art books. I read them all. I try things out. I take classes almost continuously. I thrive on the interaction with a teacher then I like to go off by myself and try. If a teacher is not helpful enough, I don’t go back. I go find a different teacher. It’s about taking responsibility for one’s own learning. I’ll welcome any avenue that helps me down the road. i like to learn but I also need to see progress.
I am leery of taking expensive art workshops. Only did one and liked it though. May do more. I have taken weekly classes for the past 7 years after retiring from corporate life.
Thanks for opening up this discussion.
Thanks again for all the wonderful and thoughtful comments. This has become a really interesting discussion.
I think it might be useful to have a clearer working definition of what ‘self taught’ means.
To me, it certainly doesn’t mean not having any contact with outside knowledge in any form. Learning from books, learning from picking up information on the Internet, still count as self taught to me.
I’d like to say that someone is self taught if they haven’t done any formal training, if they haven’t actually attended any courses.
But I have attended courses, including an art ‘A’ level, a one year art foundation course and an art degree – although I was thrown out after the first year.
I still consider myself self taught. I did learn some useful things on my foundation year, but the art degree was a complete waste of time, an unmitigated shambles.
What brought me to the level of drawing and painting skill I have now was finding every useful resource I could, book or web site, and practising until I got better. I put much of my progress down to the fact that, through trial and error, I found what I consider to be the core skills common to all representational drawing and painting.
And then I practised them like hell.
But I would have never got as far as I have without picking up knowledge from other places. To my mind, it’s somewhat meaningless to say that self-taught means having no outside input at all – largely because that’s such an unrealistic proposition. It couldn’t ever happen.
Of course there are specific branches of representational art that require more specific training. Isabella’s example of the environment sketching course is a great example of that. There’s still significant overlap with the core skills, but they’re being used for a specific purpose. I can see courses being very useful with that. Forensic art would be another good example.
But I strongly believe that the core skills can be learned, practised and improved without going on courses.
Further, and more importantly, I believe that very few courses do even a fair job of teaching the core skills, let alone giving students a useful way to practice them beyond the course.
That’s what I think is missing.
Hi Paul,
Interesting to read about your art school experience – it’s exactly the same as mine. A good Foundation course followed by the first year of a Fine Art degree non-course after which I was also kicked out.
I wasn’t failed for not working either. The assessment criteria (back in the 1980’s)were a mystery. I actually won an award from the college for my Foundation course work yet was failed the next year on the degree course (my aspirations to learn to draw & paint were considered ‘misplaced’ – that was the actual word used on the report). Another student who took a full time job and hardly turned up for three years got a degree!
Anyway, like you I found that there were plenty of sources of knowledge and guidance beyond formal academic courses. In fact, the degree course leader once actually told me to look at the books in the library if I wanted to learn how to paint (meaning don’t bother him – so what was he being paid for?).
Hopefully such courses are different now.
That makes me quite angry Adrian. I’m sure because it’s so close to my own experience. I went to art college in the 80’s too.
That our universities and the lecturers paid (very well) to teach at them can be responsible for cutting down the artistic dreams of a generation is criminal.
I really hope those courses are different now, but frankly I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for it. I think if you want to learn to draw and paint representationally, traditionally if you like, you’d better find another route than mainstream education.
Yes Paul, especially as a mainstream degree course could now cost about Ă‚ÂŁ27,000!
That’s a lot of materials, books, workshops, private tuition, whatever.
I think it’s a problem though that, no matter how much one knows and however brilliant one’s work, without having completed the formal academic route, it’s impossible to become a teacher in mainstream education.
By the way, a couple of years ago I took a short (and excellent) portrait painting course with the guy who won the second prize in the BP Portrait Award two years ago, Louis Smith. He mentioned that he had a similar experience to ourselves when he started a degree course (late 80s I think). He ended up studying for four years at the Angel Academy of Art in Florence instead.
As often happens in life, things that at first may be disappointments can ultimately lead to positive experiences further along the new route they force us to take. Problems can frequently be recognised as the gifts they actually were when viewed with hindsight.
>things that at first may be disappointments can ultimately lead to positive experiences further along the new route they force us to take.
That’s an excellent way to look at it Adrian. Of course I would prefer not to have to have gone through years of indecision and self doubt, but on the plus side, I think it has probably made me stronger and more firm in my beliefs in the end
What course have you done? (If you’ve done a bunch, just pick the most important, memorable or useful one)
Not really a course, more of learning under teachers (not official schools).
First course: How to draw people. More about the logic and what to look for in drawing than techniques.
Second course: Sculpture drawing.
What did you get from it that you couldn’t get practising on your own?
How to think about drawing. Structure. Form. Different ways to draw.
What did I get from them? Tons of progress, because I used the lessons as a base to look at how to further improve myself. Without them I would have still been stuck at simply drawing cylinder shaped people, and having no idea how to proceed after that.
The lessons and gave me hope that I could actually do it. That I could find a way to improve without feedback. That I could think on my own and find the underlying structure or message below all the fluff.
I’m hoping that they might change my life too, if I continue to draw and improve. There’s this guy called Marko Djurdjevic. He’s done great work. I want to be better than him and do what he did and more.
Hello I love painting and i painted a couple of years ago but the ideas were not mine. Anyway I want to paint professionally and learn it well. I do not no how do it…which course could be good and where should I start?
Any suggestion???
On my own? then how??
Thanks