Daffodils, OIl on Panel, 9.5 x 7 inches
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Flowers are hard to paint.
Yellow flowers are particularly difficult.
It’s the shadows.
You see, especially on high chroma flowers, it’s often impossible to get high enough chroma in the shadows. In paint, we lose chroma quicky as we go down the value scale.
That’s especially true in yellows, becasue yellows reach their highest chroma right at the top of the value scale, about value 8 or above.
So when I was looking at these daffodils prior to painting them, I was thinking hard about what I could do.
I wanted to keep the beautiful, yellow, spring glow. I could only do that if I kept the chroma as high as possible.
There’s actually only one way to do that. Keep the values of the shadows high. Higher than they appear in life.
Which is fine, except for two things:
- It means the light and shadow are in a very narrow range of values. Imagine a value scale from 1 (black) to 9 (white). The light and shadow of these daffodils were within 6 to 8. It’s more difficult to model form cleanly in a narrow range.
- Everything changes: because the value relationships within a picture need to make sense. Changing the value relationships of the most important element, the flowers, means changing the value relationshps of everthing else to suit. It sounds easy, and actually it’s not too bad at first. The hard part is keeping it that way right through the painting process when your brain is shouting at you to make the shadows darker because that’s how they look.
That’s how I approached this painting, though. I’ve recorded the whole painting, with explanations of what I’m doing as I go along.
I’ll be releasing it (free) soon. Hopefully that will explain this more clearly, along with a few other things about my painting process.
Until then, here are a couple of shots of the painting in progress so you can see how I built it up:
In this first one, I’m just painting abstract shapes of light and shadow, painting the shadows of the daffodils lighter that they actually appear so that I can keep the chroma higher, keep the glow.
Notice also that I’ve put in my lightest light – the reflection on the glass bell jar. Everything else has to be a step below that for it to work as a reflected light.
In this second picture, I’ve started to refine the forms a little whilst keeping the value relatiosnships between light and shadow as they were at the start. This is the part I found particularly hard.
I’ve been trying to work out this link between value and chroma for a long time, and I think I finally did get it in this piece. I’m very excited now to start applying this more.
As aways, I’ll continue share what happens as I go along.
Best wishes and thanks for reading,
Paul
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Really interesting post. This is not talked about a lot.
True Carrie, it doesn’t. It’s going to get talked about a lot more here though! 🙂
Actually, no. I’ve never seen anything on relative values that demonstrates it.
Wow! I am looking forward to watching the video. The painting is stunning! The white petals on the daffodils look challenging as well. Much to think about and consider. Thank you for creating a video and sharing it!
Thank you Renee! Much to think about, yes, and a lot of careful mixing. When I get the video out, drop me a line and I’ll tell you close Munsell numbers for the colours I used, and what the values really were.
If you do a value study I thought that purple contrast would help that shadows sing? I will watch for your video as I am not an expert but struggle with value contrasts with high chroma colors.
Yes that would be a more impressionist way to approach the colour. Simoultaneous contrast can make a grey appear slightly yellow but it’s not a very marked difference. I really didn’t want a purple background though 😀
Actually, the approach I’ve used with values – lighter value, higher chroma – does really come from impressionism.
Hi Paul, I think this one is very successful and really beautiful . You nailed it!
Thank you very much Joel!
Thank you! I’m currently in daffodil heck myself, only using watercolors.
Much harder with watercolours than oils even, I think. My hat’s off to you!
Thank you for sharing your expertise. What a beautiful painting you have made. I will certainly try using your advice
Thanks Marie, and you’re very welcome.
Great post Paul! I can’t wait to see how you explore this further.
Wow, so interesting. Have noticed shadows in portrait can take quite a lot of chroma too. It adds warmth, intensity and richness and yes can take quite a lot of it.
I think we mentioned this before, but transparency give you a much higher chroma range. Do you ever consider using a transparent underpainting? That would give the richness of the shadows and more.
Also, cooling or just neutralizing choice parts of the painting would also jack the orange chroma up significantly and chroma limitations become much less problematic. In same way old painters didn’t really have blue, they just placed neutrals in a very warm scheme.
Read an interesting book by John Burnet on colour. It’s an old one, don’t know if you’ve read it, but the first couple of pages are good. He talks about painters electing a warm underpainting over a cool one and the fact that warm shadows just ’work’. he does give counter examples, but there’s something in that. It’s fascinating.. it applies ‘Alla prima‘ too. Yesterday I applied a warm transparent yellow/orange and then very lightly cooled it down with blue greys. I don’t think you could get that result in one coat and I’m very interested to know if you could get it warm over cool.
It’s a really good painting 🙂
Yeh you did use an underpainting! It’s a really beauty!
An amazing painting Paul.
I’ve seen that high chroma deep shadow yellow is an illusion. So as you stated, we need to trade off value for chroma. Using high chroma pigments can be a disadvantage when painting the yellows and oranges in very deep shadow. This is where the umbers and siennas come in.
I’m also working on the yellow challenge, and the colour temperature is critical.
I’ve learned that a muddy colour is a colour too warm for it’s context, and a chalky colour is a colour too cool for it’s context.
Looking forward to more explorations in yellow.
Muddiness and chalkiness are both caused by too low chroma. I’d try to look at the value, hue and chroma of colours seperately, I think you’ll find that much in colour is easier to handle if you approach it from a pont of view of warm and cool.
Warmth and coolness are relative, and can be a result of a hue change, a chroma change, or more usually both. The effect of chroma on apparent temperature of colour is often missed I think.
Your hard work has transformed itself into a really beautiful painting. I love the way you’ve kept the intensity of the yellows while modelling the form. Also, I truly admire in all your work the your luminous, transparent shadows of the backgrounds–something I have struggled with in my own work. Looking forward to your next installment.
This is great, thanks so much for your work- and your generosity !
Hello Paul, thank you for sharing your work end your expertise.
Yes, painting yellow flowers is difficult, (the shadows and the background) and your explanations are very useful.
I have a similar difficulty on the opposite range with peonies (peony red, highest chroma right at the bottom of the value scale). Each spring I cut a bunch of (white and) red peonies from the garden. The result of my painting remains disappointing compared to the reality. (Ah Manet!)
Next spring I will use your constructed approach for red peonies!
Thanks again and greetings
Ah yes, those low value, low chroma reds are particularly hard! You might try quinacridone rose from Michael Harding together with his Naphthol red. One is more blue, one more towards orange, both are high chroma.
I’m really happy to have found this. I’ve watched many of your videos on YouTube. Color has been my center if interest, and it’s so good to know you use the Munsell system. Thank you for addressing that all-elusive color, yellow.
You’re very welcome Karen 🙂
Hello Paul, I have been painting for many years. The struggle gets easier but never goes away, and probably should not go away. Once we become too comfortable with our “technique” we lose something. It is hard for an “old dog” to learn more tricks but watching your video the other night, which I literally stumbled upon, I learned quite a few things. I am primarily a landscape painter but do enjoy working figuratively too.
Painting daffodils is a real challenge and you make it look so easy. It is hard to believe you are completely self taught. You have achieved a very competent and beautiful way of painting. I applaud your efforts and also think it is very kind of you to share your knowledge. I hope you have continued success!
Thank you Jeanean! What a lovely comment!